Adventures in Copyrights: Getting Ripped Off Is Not a Luxury

posted by Faran

Jun 21, 2007 12:04PM

Hi J,

Surprisingly, a boarding school education doesn't always correlate with a trust fund. In my case, absolutely not, but I appreciate the reminder that not every girl would buy a pochette if given an extra $200.

That said, hello, SJP totally ripped off a bag! This is no better than the faux Fendi episode of SATC!

posted by mary

Jun 21, 2007 12:04PM

i guess that makes since, because in middle school we'd always call copying posers "biters"

posted by mary

Jun 21, 2007 12:05PM

i guess that makes since, because in middle school we'd always call copying posers "biters"

posted by mary

Jun 21, 2007 12:06PM

oops, not only did i accidentally post twice, but i made a stupid since/sense error! sorrrry!

posted by a

Jun 21, 2007 12:16PM

I think the debate is productive and if we're the ones to start it, that's great (I don't own a pochette, didn't go to boarding school, but I'll ignore those generalizations :)).

First off, SJP doesn't address where these clothes were made to get them down to those price points. If she's couching this in rhetoric about poorer, average women, then the issue of production is relevant, esp. as she's clearly making money out of this.

I haven't seen the clothes in person, but from what I've seen in the media, she's put her name on stuff that is deliberately "behind the curve "(I think those are her words in today's Times). That's patronizing. I used to live in the sticks and know that at least some people who admire her (or Patricia Fields') taste and have limited budgets and options want more cutting-edge items.

I think debate is necessary so that women who aren't affluent--or size 2-8--have a chance to buy beautiful, well made and reasonably cheap clothing, not more of the same. Open up the market for style to those who don't have the advantages of SJP, including a tiny body. I'm a size 6-8 but I have friends who are plus sized and their options are Salon Z, Marina Rinaldi, Old Navy and Lane Bryant. If I was stuck chosing between a smaller, less well stocked, pricier version of Saks' 5th floor, Ellen Tracey type clothes, Old Navy and Express I'd be furious. Sure Bitten goes larger, but reports are it runs really small.

In short, this isn't us deciding what people can wear, but debate about why their choices are so limited and why SJP doesn't fill the gap she claims to have found.

posted by jack

Jun 21, 2007 12:18PM

i love that episode of satc. but i'm not that bothered about her ripping it off - it's too foul to be mistaken for the actual thing. Maybe Anna C should do a diffusion line of her bags which is so expensive.

posted by jack

Jun 21, 2007 12:21PM

i love the episode of satc. but i'm not too bothered about her ripping it off - it's too foul to be mistaken for the real thing, women want fashionable bags. in fact maybe i am just sick of bags! i can't escape them! endless debate over big v small! gah! am going to invest in something with proper pockets.

posted by Unfun

Jun 21, 2007 12:51PM

"While I appreciate the critique of SJP's "mission" I have to wonder if it should really be up to privileged, fashion savvy, pochette carrying, boarding school graduates to decide what women with a very small clothing budget want to wear..."

And thats not what SJP is doing?

Those clothes are cheap for a reason. I worked at Steve and Barry's in high school, I know what kind of game they run. In most of their stores nothing is over 12.99 including jackets and shoes - im sure Bitten is following suit. I'm sure the clothes are poorly made and ill fitting.

posted by anonymous

Jun 21, 2007 12:55PM

I might have felt sorry for Anna Corinna if I didn't own two of her bags...apart from the gorgeous leather, they are terribly made and way overpriced. They have unfinished details, one of mine is falling apart after a few uses, and the lining is cheap and pills. I'm not so sure Anna Corinna bags aren't made in a sweatshop.

posted by guest

Jun 21, 2007 1:20PM

don't you mean the shoes she wore the last episode of season 4?

posted by dk

Jun 21, 2007 1:31PM

Based on your previous posts, you hold major disdain for SJP and her new clothing line. Here you rag on her for copying another's design. Elsewhere you speak much more favorably about stores like Forever 21 and TopShop when referring to "Adventures in Copyrights". Why so anti-SJP? Yes, she can be interpreted as condescending, but your remarks don't come off much better.

posted by Faran

Jun 21, 2007 1:38PM

I've never encouraged shoppers to buy an F21 or TopShop item that's a direct rip-off; in fact, part of the reason for this series is to keep designers on guard.

But I certainly do encourage shoppers to buy TopShop and F21 clothes, because

1. They're way cuter than SJP's offerings.

2. They don't come with a manifesto about how their faux celebrity designer was saving their lives and their self esteem by magically granting them access to style.

This has been said by many other women, besides me, but I am certainly no fan of her clothes, or her preaching.

Loved The Family Stone, though.

posted by skyscraping

Jun 21, 2007 2:28PM

what about F21's ultra christian agenda? or have you not looked at that bright yellow plastic bag closely? read up on the company and its owner -- how comfortable are you now giving your money to forwarding a global right wing corporation?

posted by seltzer

Jun 21, 2007 2:39PM

dk, the clothes seem worthy of derision because the designs arent anything new.
future landfill fodder, if you ask me.

posted by astrid

Jun 21, 2007 3:14PM

printing john 3:16 on the bottom of a bag is hardly evidence of an "ultra christian agenda." in&out does it too. some people are christian. some of those christians own businesses. big whoop.

the difference: F21's owners aren't claiming that your patronage at their store will save your poor, misinformed soul.

posted by Allison

Jun 21, 2007 3:30PM

Two of the purses/totes SJP's Bitten offers are nearly exact replicas of two bags offered at Gap last summer. I mean, nearly exact. Gap probably knocked them off from somewhere else, but still, I wish SJP and Steve and Barry's had thought of something new. As someone from "the sticks" who admires the characters she and Patricia Field created through the clothing, I would like something a little more cutting-edge, a bit less torn from the pages of another designer. F21 already does enough cheap knock-offs. I want cheap, new stuff!

I have been so underwhelmed by the Steve and Barry's line for SJP. I think she has made a huge misstake.

And the line does run incredibly small! I'm normally an XS and purchased a medium t-shirt. I guarantee no girl over size 16 could actually wear any Bitten.

posted by behindbigglasses

Jun 21, 2007 5:22PM

anonymous - that's awful about the bad quality of anna corinna bags - I've wanted to buy one for maybe a year-and-a-half but never settled on the size and never seemed to pinch enough pennies to save up.

Still, with all the hoo-haa-braa of sjp's proclamations on her line, I'm not sold. And I agree it's pretty crap to take advantage of emerging designers - if fashion is supposed to be a right, she should have come up with something her own, instead of acting right-eous. Oh the pun~

posted by lisa

Jun 21, 2007 5:35PM

let's just admit that some people here would criticize sjp no matter what she did. expecting her to fill some kind of gap in fashion is a little absurd. she's offering a line of clothing, as ugly and plain as u may think it is, that is economical. she's offering basics and wardrobe staples, and if she truly were appealing to those with a lesser budget, why would she try to make her line trendy? the point of trendiness is that it's only wearable for a given time so why create clothes that come with an expiration date if you're trying to appeal to the customer who can't afford to switch out their wardrobes every season? sure, sjp will make an enormous sum of money from this. so what?

posted by Amy

Jun 21, 2007 5:37PM

Wow Lisa, so what? Your critical thinking skills are right up there with the way you spelled "u".

posted by Jac

Jun 21, 2007 5:40PM

I noticed that thing on the F21 yellow bag too, but kind of ignored it. That's interesting, I'll have to go read up on it alittle bit. I think SJP def. comes off as a bit condescending, but I don't think her intention with this line was what has come to pass. I think she thought she was doing something really cool, but it just came off as cheap. Also, when something is revolutionary, I can see the problems with copyrighting. But this bag is really simple and lacks innovation, so I can't really knock her.

posted by jess

Jun 21, 2007 5:53PM

skyscraping i agree 100%! what forever 21 does is EXACTLY that.

not to mention that a few years ago they were sued for unfair labor practices, wages, working conditions, etc. they settled out of court- but since they're prices are relatively the same, i'd say they are still using the same type of labor.

i cannot believe what a backlash sjp is receiving either.

lucky for me i don't want to buy anything from either of these companies/lines.

posted by arcadia

Jun 21, 2007 6:21PM

there are MANY corporations we all shop from with conservative/christian/right wing agendas...who here has shopped from Amazon.com? enough said....

i don't think Bitten's clothes run small, i think in her sanctimonius quest to be all things to all people she did away with "vanity sizing".

posted by ae

Jun 21, 2007 9:29PM

Unfun, SJP grew up on welfare w/o running water. Her family's big break was when she finally made it on Broadway. To claim that she has no idea what people of less means may desire (sturdy practical clothing w/ a touch of pizzazz rather than a disposable wardrobe) may be a bit patronizing as well, no?

posted by Spilled Tea

Jun 21, 2007 9:32PM

I don't see what the big deal is about the knock-off. It's not like SJP is the only one who does this. I think people r still pissed
off about her comment
about us in the blogosphere.

posted by Winona

Jun 22, 2007 5:16AM

Wow. That's a pretty blatant rip-off.

posted by Kathryn

Jun 22, 2007 7:16PM

I am late to this discussion, but I finally finished reading all of the commentary on the Cathy Horyn blog. And finally took the time to look at the clothes online.
Ultimately, they look as average as most of the Traget Go lines do, or the designer-white Gap from this summer, Madonna for H&M, on and on. So it can't be just the clothes that are getting Faran all sorts of uptight. Instead, it must be:

1) She, like lots of *fashion* people, really do want fashion to be a rare and exclusive party, though they would never admit it.
2) She thought that SJP would design something more stylish for a more *acceptable* store.
3) The honest, simplicity of the line and the idea behind it are easy targets for criticism from ironic hipsters.
5)All of the above.

Your choice.

posted by Faran

Jun 22, 2007 8:31PM

Hi Kathryn,

Thanks for your response. It's certainly well written, but it's not as well thought out.

And now of course, I have to respond.

1. Not sure you can compare SJP's line with Target's. Why? Target's clothes aren't as safe. They truly acknowledge that fashion isn't a luxury, by giving us interpretations of high fashion trends at a very low price.

There's a reason the Proenza for Target bustier sold out in two seconds - because there was nothing else like it on the mass market.

2. If I thought fashion should be a rare and exclusive party, I'm not sure I'd have a blog. I'd have a juice diet, and a lot more discretion.

3. It's not even about the clothes; it's about the way SJP is marketing the clothes as some sort of charity offering to the middle class. SJP wants to stay famous, and she wants to stay rich - she doesn't care about you, or whether you have anything to wear. She wants you to believe that until her, "normal" American women couldn't dress themselves. a

That's insulting to the millions of women who have admired her style, and used it as a crutch to give them the courage to find their own style. That was definitely me, I worshipped SJP in college and still admire her greatly as an actress.

There is no irony here, but it's certainly sad.

4. Believe me, I have nothing against $11 shorts. I'm wearing a pair from Kohl's right now.

xo F.

posted by elle

Jun 23, 2007 12:07AM

I went to the S&B in Manhattan Mall the Friday after the clothes debuted (out of curiosity). I knew that it would be a line of basics, but I was very disappointed with the quality of most items - Old Navy stuff is made better. The pants did absolutely run very small, too.

I really wanted to buy something, anything, because I'm kind of obsessed with "high fashion for low prices" and try to get something from every Target/Go collection, so I wanted to participate in this, too.

Unfortunately, I walked away with nothing, even after trying on probably 20 things.

I understand the criticism of SJP from "fashion people," because it does come off as a little condescending. But after seeing SJP on Oprah/Today Show/everywhere the week the clothes came out, I really think she sounds genuine and it just sounds like she wants to offer options - not be a savior to working-class women. I also think that the women the clothes are meant for, people who would never spend over $20 for a shirt, appreciate her effort.

I also don't think SJP is trying to "stay famous" - I think her Sex&theCity legacy will be around for quite awhile

Sorry this comment is so late, I just feel strongly about this and wanted to add my opinion!

Thanks Faran, for this awesome blog-